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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 10 Points: 30 Location: Switzerland
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Hi John! Reading your reviews and tests I constantly realize you like some aspects of file, bodies and lenses that I also like. I would like to know if you have tested or maybe tried the Sony A900, and in those cases what do you think of it and of the Alpha system. I think I'd like the A900 body: more compact that my 1DsII, with a better viewfinder (crucial for me) and I think files that from what I've seen have plenty of detail and a gentle roll off towards pure white. I'd also like Zeiss 85 and/or 135, possibly the 16-35 but I'd miss a fast and good wideangle (the old Minolta 28/2 should be good, but is a rare beast). Abandoning my 1DsII + Leica and Contax lenses for Sony is a big decision to take for me...You know... I need to convince myself
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Mattia - Don't worry, I won't spend your money I've looked at the Sony A900 also, but ultimately a couple things come up short:
1) Lack of lenses, not a very wide selection.
2) No Zeiss ZF / ZE types for the Sony (Minolta) mount
Technically, the camera is a bit hit or miss:
1) No live view, that bugs me.
2) ISO performance is weak
3) Autofocus points are bunched up at the center
4) 12 bits; it's a 14-bit world now...
5) Opinions about sharpness vary; I'm not sure what to make of it.
The GetDPI boards have a dedicated forum that you might want to check out - GetDPI Sony A900 Forum.
I have a used 1Ds Mark III on the way; I'll update the 135 Blog as to why that happened. Without getting into details here, after looking at the A900 for awhile, I still decided to stay with Canon.
Your 1Ds2 is a great camera and holds highlights better than a 1Ds3; you should think long and hard before parting with it.
For giggles and grins, check out the new picture galleries at my site (click here). Select "Vacation" pictures. That's a very good case study because the three galleries are:
Boston - 100% 1Ds3
San Francisco - 100% 1Ds2
Mexico - 33% Mamiya ZD and 66% Leica M8
I see differences in the color, but I'm biased since I had to work those files. While I bitch and moan about the 1Ds3 (and always will!!!), I do like its color the best. For black and white work the M8 and ZD both do a great job. For color, they are okay - sort of 1Ds2 vintage. My big gripe with the A900 is 12-bits. I like the 1Ds3's deep, rich colors. I want that! I don't think an A900 would measure up, and at 12-bits its files will fall apart quicker in photoshop. Whereas the 1Ds3's file can be pushed around quite abit before falling apart.
If Sony releases an A900 Mark II w/ 16-bit files, then I'll probably take a closer look at Sony. I'd also like to see some ZA primes like a 50mm F1.2, the 100mm F2 Planar of course and some others. I view Sony as future option, but it really depends on where Sony goes with it. If they dumb down their line towards more of a consumer line-up instead of professional line-up, then I'll lose interest. Time will tell.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 10 Points: 30 Location: Switzerland
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Hi John, thanks for your detailed answer! In the meantime I had already decided to stay with Canon, and to be surer I purchased a 300/2.8 IS (having seen the price of the Sony/Minolta equivalent helped a lot). Even after having lurked for months GetDPI (quite non-Canon-centric forum ;) ), my decision stood still  Shortcomings of the Alpha system and A900 body overcome many of the good characteristics. One of them for example is the smaller A900 body (that I like!), that is zeroed by the fact that small quality primes or zooms are scarce at best: a 1Ds + Zeiss N 24-85 (you didn't like it, but for me is a very good compromise) weighs less than a A900 + 24-70 f2.8 (i don't generally need a f2.8 zoom: if I need light I use an f1.4 prime). The Sony Zeiss lenses, while good, tend to weigh some 25-30% more than other brands comparables ones, and if you sum up 3 or 4 lenses in a bag, body weigh vantage of the a900 is nullified. Do you think that 1DsIII files are post-production friendly exclusively thanks to the 14bit? Or maybe there are some other reasons? I'm curious to know the characteristics and price of the new 1ds IV. I sincerely hope a 1V + booster like solution: a normal factor body with impeccable construction. I also hope the it will be more "medium format" like, regarding file characteristics (so no ISO 204'800, but very good ISO 100 DR).
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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"The" problem with Sony system at the moment is lack of primes. And really Nikon suffers the same. Regardless of whether or not somebody likes Canon or not, I think anybody agree that Canon has the widest range of lenses. I've got my gripes with Canon, but ultimately the lens range that keeps me as a Canon customer.
I just published a quick review of the Leica Universal Polarizer (13356) and these images were taken with the 1Ds Mark III and Contax 100mm F2 Planar. As we know, I like the 100mm Planar, but the Contax version is a lousy product lens because after F5.6 its image quality degrades. For product there is never enough DOF, so the Contax 100mm F2 Planar and product pix are not the best match. That said...



Those pix would have a bit more kick had they been taken with something like a Zeiss 50mm F2 Makro-Planar ZF, but I don't have that lens on hand, so such is life. The Mamiya ZD with the 80mm F2.8 AF D & 12mm extension tube would have yielded sharper images, but moire and false color would have been issue (especially with the baffles on the polarizer's hood).
What the 1Ds3 does produce is a very clean file that polishes up nicely in photoshop. Some of these files had some hefty levels adjustments and highlights in the shadow areas were boosted to add some pop. I can't get away with that as much with the M8 or ZD; the Phase One P25 was best in that particular area. Cameras like the Sony A900 where they have their best DR at ISO 200 are a nightmare for this type of work because to get the best DR, you have to deal with added show noise. And noise in the highlights can turn into banding super-duper fast.
The 1Ds3 could be sharper for sure - and I wish it was - but when it comes to color editing and pushing files around in photoshop, it handles very well. The 5D Mark II files did NOT have the elasticity. To be blunt, I did not like the 5D Mark II at all. There several occasions where I need to take some quick family pix. I had picked up the 5DII, but before leaving the house I changed my mind and opted for the M8 instead. The M8 is not some mythical wonder-machine, but I find it much more enjoyable than the 5D Mark II. I'd love to see the 1Ds Mark IV have a removable grip like the old film Canon 1V, but we haven't seen that yet, so I wouldn't count on it.
BTW - here's a quick shot from the ZD -

For webbies like that, the difference between medium format and a dSLR is slim and none. A digital back is complete overkill for web presentation IMO. But what I LOVE about the ZD is the feel of an 80mm lens as normal kit lens (the 80mm's FOV is effectively the same as 50mm on a 1Ds3) -

That look can be matched somewhat with the 50 'Lux on the M8 or the Contax 100/2 on the 1Ds3, but the ZD does it more naturally, more often and with less fuss. I think the 1Ds3 equally capable with the right lens(es), so I am anxiously waiting for the Zeiss 50mm f2 Makro-Planar in the ZE. I loved the lens, but hated the ergonomics on the ZF version because the aperture is very difficult to access.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 10 Points: 30 Location: Switzerland
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If these products pix were heavily processed, your 1DsIII gives very manipulable files indeed! They look PERFECT  I'm really surprised of the differences you found between 5DII and 1dsmkIII. Regarding medium format, I never fully understood why pictures look more easily "3D" than 24x36. Some say is a matter of less magnification to enjoy it, but I don't know for sure. Fact is that when I shot with my Contax 645 and even more with my Fuji 6x9 cm, I regularly notice a more natural separation between planes and smoother gradations. I think some of these characteristics may be regained with 24x36 using right lenses, but I'm not fully convinced that the look between a 80/2 on a 645 and a 50/1.2 (or 1.4?) on 24x36 would be the same. Do you decided to stay with the ZD22? I saw one on eBay but when I was deciding if take it or not, someone bought it :(
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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I think the difference with 645 is the use of longer lenses. As you said, we use an 80mm on 645 and 50mm on 135. With that comes different compression, different angle of view, different DOF (especially the ingress and egress of DOF). With 645 I "step into" the shot and close the distance, thus shortening DOF even more so. With 80mm we can shoot F5.6 and have a nice solid DOF for the subject, and still have a quick egress from DOF which separates the subject from the background. This is 100% do-able with 36x24mm dSLRs - with the "right" lenses. Two of lenses for me have been the Contax 100mm F2 Planar and Leica 50mm Summilux-M ASPH.
Contax 100/2 (Canon 1Ds & 1Ds2) -




Leica M8 and 50mm F1.4 Summilux-M ASPH





I'm sure there are other lenses out there that can do the same. And people post plenty of 3D images in various forums threads, so the results are not unique to the Contax 100 & Leica 50. But these lenses work for me and tend to get the results. Now, to make your argument for 645, here are some from the Mamiya 200mm f2.8 APO on the ZD -




Regarding the 5D Mark II and 1Ds Mark III; I spent the afternoon with a friend who had the 1Ds2, sold it and is in the market for a 1Ds3. He played with the 5D Mark II a couple weeks and shot around 50 frames with mine before it was sold. Today he clicked off ~40 frames on the 1Ds3. He emailed earlier tonight saying the 1Ds3 did much better in terms of detail and less "mush" in the backgrounds. It's pretty hard to say a 1Ds3 is worth the extra $2k (new 5DII in the US is $2699, a used 1Ds3 is ~$4750), but it does seem to deliver better color and slightly better detail. The 1Ds3 isn't worlds better, but there does seem to be a difference. Sometimes I think I imagine this stuff, so it's nice when somebody else sees similar results.
I borrowed several L lenses, so now I have some lenses to work with on the 1Ds3. I'll probably end up selling the ZD to pay for Canon lenses, but I really don't want to sell the ZD. It has its look.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Several more medium format images from the Mamiya ZD taken yesterday with the Mamiya 80mm F2.8 AF "D" -



Considering that these are square crops - essentially a 30mm x 30mm negative after cropping, in terms of "feel" the 1Ds3 could have come very close with a 80mm lens attached. The Mamiya ZD does an excellent job holding highlights and those three pictures were taken in high-noon sun, so the 1Ds3 would not have been happy. When there is plenty of light, the ZD can be pretty good. If there isn't enough light for F4 + 1/200 + ISO50, then it's time to put away the ZD and switch to the 1Ds3 or M8.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 10 Points: 30 Location: Switzerland
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As usual you are very helpful and informative! Plus you images are really wonderful and share a style that I like a lot! I hope this off-topic doesn't bother you. Many Zeiss lenses with their micro-contrast draw scenes that pop in a lovely fashion. I use some modern and very well corrected Leica R lenses (such as the Apo 90/2 and Apo 180/2.8) and I find that even these stellar optics doesn't draw like good corrected Zeiss (such as the C/Y 100/2), but have a good draw nonetheless. Problem is that I have found that, honestly, adapting lenses on 5D / 1ds has a lower keeping ratio compared to using Canon EF objectives (or using Contax C/Y on my RTS II with a viewfinder developed for manual focus). With a razor sharp plane of focus, e.g. of the 180/2.8 Apo @ 2.8, every *minimal* focus error is immediately evident. So, what do you think of Canon lenses? I just sold most of my leica glass, and I'm thinking of purchasing a fast short telephoto lens: candidates are 85/1.2, 100/2 and 135/2. I'm also leaning toward the 50/1.2 ad a very fast do it all, but I'm hesitant. You had the chance to use them? I have a very good copy of the normal 70-200/4 and found it a good performer, especially for a zoom, but in this range I'd like something that by f2 or, ok, f2.8 is capable of isolating the subject and make it bounce of the print, so to speak (of course English is absolutely not my mother language, so sorry for killing it every time I write here)  A perfect sum of my post is this image, taken with a 80/1.4 Leica at f2.8 I think, where I missed the focus on the door and front focused. At web sizes, with a bit of fosued sharpening, is ok. Print is out of the question.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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While I have not owned a Leica 80mm F1.4 Summilux, as soon as I saw your image I thought it was either the Contax 100/2 or the Leica 80 Lux. I think the 80 Lux draws in a very similar many to the 100/2. I love that shot. The Leica 50mm F1.4 Summilux-M ASPH can be 3D, but it's 3D effect is more evident on close-up shots with the subject just several feet away. In general, I agree and the Leica lenses don't seem as 3D as the Zeiss optics. Hitting focus with the manual lenses is difficult. The only alternate manual lens I own is the Contax 100mm F2 Planar. I would have more old manual lenses, but stop down metering and adapters is getting tired. Instead of having a bag full of lenses, I have full of cameras!!! LOL I've thinned out the gear and for now, this is - 1) 1Ds3 w/ Contax 100mm F2 Planar 2) M8 w/ Leica 50mm F1.4 Lux ASPH 3) ZD w/ 80mm F2.8 AF D Things won't stay that way. The Canon will get a 24-105L, maybe a 135L and maybe 300mm F4 IS. I'd like to go crazy and get a 200mm F2 IS and 500mm F4 IS, but I'm serious broke at the moment. I may have to sell the ZD to fund lenses, but I'm trying really hard to avoid that. Of the lenses you listed: 1) Canon 135L - very sharp at the center, nice color, great bokeh. It's one of my favorite Canon lenses. 135mm is an odd focal length though. 2) Canon 100mm F2 - skip it. It's fine for a bargain lens, but frankly, for character i'd rather a Leica 90mm Summicron. 3) Canon 50L F1.2 - beware, focus shift. Nice optic for general use and if it didn't have focus shift, it would probably be a lens i would use alot. The focus shift is bad. 4) Canon 70-200/4 L IS - awesome lens. love it. light, easy to travel with and super sharp. i've been meaning to write a review for it; it deserves it. I don't have any knock out shots with the Canon 135L because 135mm is a hard focal length for me. I have no trouble with 200mm on 645, but 135mm on 135 doesn't flow as smoothly. And that makes no sense... Here was some 135L shots from last fall with the 1Ds Mark III -       If you want to get more keepers with the manual lenses on Canon, I've got a suggestion - the 1Ds3  It has the best viewfinder of any Canon dSLR for sure. The viewfinder is definitely one of the 1Ds3 best features. AF confirmation adapters help to a point. I use them to get things close, but to get focus exactly on point, it still takes some guess work. I like the AF adapters because they help me from making a bad mistake. Sometimes my eyes get tricked, so if the camera isn't beeping, then I've probably made a big focus error. Live View can make a world of difference. That's a game changing feature if you're shooting with lots of manual lenses.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 10 Points: 30 Location: Switzerland
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PebblePlace wrote:While I have not owned a Leica 80mm F1.4 Summilux, as soon as I saw your image I thought it was either the Contax 100/2 or the Leica 80 Lux. I think you are right. I have never owned the Contax 100/2, but I saw many of your pictures  Probably the Contax 100/2 is better corrected and over a wider area from f2. In my experience the 80/1.4 is like that from f4. F1.4 to F2 is "dream world", with non corrected spherical aberration all over the place, F2.8 is border line, from f4 is a razor. A Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde lens  Too bad is *very* difficult to nail the focus, because the rather soft and low contrast wide aperture. Leica APO's are somewhat different: they have a plane of focus almost perfect, but the transition to out of focus is too abrupt for my taste, and I don't know why, but this I think this is not good for a credible 3D effect. Apart from that, the 90/2 Apo is a sweet and very small lens, perfect to carry around every time. I however decided to let go every manual-adapted lens I own, save the Leica 35/2 first version, that has an truly unique style and is the 35mm with the best bokeh I ever tried. (I like taking pictures like yours in Hawaii with the 28/2 distagon (that I had) near focus and open diaphragm: with the Contax often the bokeh gets very busy, with bright point showing a strong brighter edge. Leica 35/2 is buttery smooth at every f-stop. On the other hand, the plane of focus of the 28/2 is incredible, even at near focus distance.) The rest will be original AF Canon. Quote: Instead of having a bag full of lenses, I have full of cameras!!!
"Invest on glass, not in bodies" as they say  Quote:
1) Canon 135L - very sharp at the center, nice color, great bokeh. It's one of my favorite Canon lenses. 135mm is an odd focal length though.
Is this one or the 85/1.2. One of these for sure. 85mm is more versatile to my taste, but is bigger, costs 2 times as much and AF is slower... mmm... Your 135L pictures are wonderful as usual! One of the things I envy you (ZD aside  ) is the light you have by your home: it's absolutely fantastic, from what I's seen on many of your shots. I live on a rather mountainous spot, and I don't have a true "golden hour" light, because the sunset is behind the mountains. Quote: 3) Canon 50L F1.2 - beware, focus shift. Nice optic for general use and if it didn't have focus shift, it would probably be a lens i would use alot. The focus shift is bad.
Yes, focus shift is an horrible thing: it is two years that i flirt with the 50/1.2 and this problem cools me down... Quote: 4) Canon 70-200/4 L IS - awesome lens. love it. light, easy to travel with and super sharp. i've been meaning to write a review for it; it deserves it.
Indeed. Is a wonderful optic with an useful range in a rather small and light package. One of the reasons for I finally decided to stay with Canon is this zoom. Quote:If you want to get more keepers with the manual lenses on Canon, I've got a suggestion - the 1Ds3  It has the best viewfinder of any Canon dSLR for sure. The viewfinder is definitely one of the 1Ds3 best features. AF confirmation adapters help to a point. I use them to get things close, but to get focus exactly on point, it still takes some guess work. I like the AF adapters because they help me from making a bad mistake. Sometimes my eyes get tricked, so if the camera isn't beeping, then I've probably made a big focus error. Live View can make a world of difference. That's a game changing feature if you're shooting with lots of manual lenses. Not anymore: like I said, I finally decided to shift almost 100% to Canon lenses. I don't want to lose time and resources in adapting lenses, missing shots and so on. This summer I'll go to Canadian Rockies for the second time in my life (I love that region, and I live near the Alps of Switzerland, so is a rather big compliment  ) and I want to travel light. Maybe I follow your example with the 200/1.8 and give the 300/2.8 IS to my girlfriend to carry everywhere  1DsIII is tempting, but I'm not sure about the blown highlights that is a thing I absolutely hate in digital. Maybe I'll give a Kodak slr/c a try
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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I'll try to be a good boy scout and give the 1Ds3 a fair second chance. For me each of the cameras is a different film because they each deliver a unique look that I cannot replicate easily in Photoshop. In other words, the ZD can do a great sharp image with a nice 3D feel. It's difficult to get that level of sharpness from the 1Ds3. But the 1Ds3 has wonderfully rich colors which I can't get from the ZD or M8. The M8 can do great black and whites, but the 1Ds3 usually comes across as all black, all white and not much in between. The M8 has a somewhat unique position because of its size - which is considerably smaller than the 1Ds3 and ZD.
For the last 4 or 5 years I've been buying and trying different gear, so what I have today is sort of a "best of" list. If I own it right now, it's because it (be it a camera or lens) does something unique that cannot be easily matched by another camera or lens. Unfortunately there is a budget limit, so I can't afford to keep everything. A couple weeks ago I sold the Mamiya 200mm F2.8 APO - which I will regret (again). However, I do think the 135L on the Canon 1Ds3 is very similar.
My goal is to eventually sell the ZD and replace it with a 1Ds4 and Zeiss ZE lenses. The M8 will become a M9 and most likely the Leica 50mm F1.4 ASPH will continue to be the only M lens. Even the M8 will be somewhat at risk once I can buy a Zeiss 50mm F2 Makro-Planar ZE. However, the M8 still has that size advantage. The kit will downsize one more step, how that will happen and when - that's a mystery for now. The 1Ds Mark III has been here for two weeks and I've only used it for a handful of product shots. I need to actually "use" the camera. Likewise, I need to "use" the ZD. This weekend I hope to find some time and waste a day looking for pictures.
Living in the middle suburbia it's difficult to find areas that are photogenic. And how many pictures of Christina and the dogs can I keep posting? Living next to the Swiss Alps sounds awfully nice! The original ZD owner lived somewhere around the Alps - he had a summer house there.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 1/31/2008 Posts: 188 Points: 661 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Hi Mattia -
In the Contax 100mm F2 Planar Review, there is now new gallery of images taken across a period of 4 years with the 1Ds, 1Ds2 and 1Ds3. Here's the gallery -
http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Contax_100mm_Planar_4.html
I'm also re-doing the entire Alaska gallery from 2005. Those images were taken with the original Canon 1Ds. It's hard going back to those files. At the time they seemed great, now they pretty low. The ZD and M8 put out higher quality files. The original 1Ds lacks DR compared to its predecessors. The color is a bit odd too. I've been meaning to re-process all those images for the past 2 years or so, but keep putting it off because it's such a boring task...
I've also been rebuilding a number of other galleries, so many 1Ds2 images have been reviewed too during the past week. At this point I don't think I could back to a 12-bit dSLR. The higher bit files from the 1Ds3 have a definite advantage in color, smoothness in the transitions and some general "pop". Maybe the A900 has that pop, but I'm skeptical.
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